Wednesday, 1 August 2012

The Immoral Wizard

I don't have a lot to say on this matter, so this may be an exceedingly short post. However, it's still something that I find absolutely atrocious. Even if you're not an antinatalist you should be able to understand to some extent I hope.

Tom creates a pig out of thin air because he's a wizard. No more explanation necessary. Who is indebted to whom? While you may at first think that the pig is indebted to the wizard, things don't necessarily work out that way if we think past our natural biases. The wizard cannot at once assume he has a debt to claim, and force the pig into a life of slavery and hardship (to pay for the wizard's retirement or look after the wizard when he is older for example). One one hand, surely sentient or near-sentient beings have RIGHTS and cannot be owned from the start by anyone! And moreover, if anyone is in debt here, it is surely the wizard, who took a risk on a life that was not his; he created the pig's life, so he is de facto responsible for any suffering the pig undergoes. Therefore HE is indebted far more to the pig than the pig is indebted to Tom.

What do I mean by this? Well what I mean is, the traditional practice of raising children to become moneymakers for the purpose of not dying alone and with money troubles is horrible. One, that's almost slavery. Almost. Two, surely something's gone wrong here - if anything the opposite scenario should take place! The only possible way you might expect a return from your children would be either (a out of love, biological love NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON, or because (b you did not create them, but rather saved them from being parentless by adoption. And even then, they have rights. They aren't REQUIRED to do anything in return for your favour. You did not sign a contract with them. You forced it onto them.

And remember, forcing your dreams onto a child is basically the same sort of scenario too!

Take care of your children. Being a parent is not something you should be rewarded for, it's a responsibility. You signed no contract with the child saying they should repay you. It's also wrong if you're a biological parent, but you know the drill.

I can't think of how to edit this post, so I'll leave it as it is, a little rough around the edges. May come back to it later.


  1. Absolutely, estnihil. I have been thinking about this recently too. I don't think people have an obligation to take care of their parents, even though it is common in many cultures. Some people think we are obligated to take care of our parents because they gave us "the gift of life", but we did not ask for, and did not necessarily want, this "gift". Life was imposed on us by our parents without our permission. Even worse, they brought us into this life knowing that we don't have access to any sort of comfortable and reliable means of suicide if we suffer horrible illness or other circumstances where we are ready to end our lives.

  2. Estnihil, antinatalism doesn't become any clearer with a wizard conjuring a pig.

    The real problem is, LEFT AS IT IS, the pig will first feel hot or cold, then bored, soon thirsty, then hungry, then it will get sick, then become miserable, and then die.

    This is the "default" life.

    The wizard actually doesn't owe anything to the pig in the normal sense of the word -- he hasn't borrowed anything from the pig. But yes, he is morally obligated to help the pig out of heat and cold, boredom, thirst and hunger and from various parasites -- AND EVEN THEN one day the pig will still get sick and become miserable and die. Owing to pigs' shorter lifespans, the wizard can still do all this! Parents typically aren't even "with" their children till they die.

  3. Why did the wizard create the pig?

    Because the wizard had an urge to perform actions leading to the creation of the pig (at best) and simply "felt like it" at most. Oh well, at least the pig has life (which it could not be in a position to refuse to be brought into this world).

  4. estnihil, this is flat out perfect.

    fil rabat, life for life's sake is not necessarily a good thing. And since the pig can't consent to life, the wizard shouldn't have made the decision for the pig. For some reason, people who breed often feel that they have the right to make the decision of life for another being who can't consent.